The Journey to Conscious Healthcare
The Journey to Conscious Healthcare
A Fresh Take on The Do's & Don'ts of Support Coordination with Kirsty Bonner hosted by Trevor Keen from Trevor Keen Health Services
Episode 3 is upon us
This weeks podcast on "The Journey to Conscious Healthcare" features Kirsty Bonner from Auscare Support
Called...
A Fresh Take on The Do's & Don'ts of Support Coordination with Kirsty Bonner
Today we discuss
- Kirsty’s history helping women in business
- How she prevented a participant from being homeless
- Mentors who have helped her
- How to hit the ground running as a new support coordinator
- Where to go to for information
- How to navigate different working environments
- Setting boundaries that actually work
- How to juggle being a mother with being a support coordinator
- What she does for self-care to avoid burnout
- How to keep expectations in check
- Where some support coordinators go wrong
- How a participant journey looks
- Getting planners on your side
- The importance of being aware of what allied health professionals do
- Where participants are falling through the gaps
- Key to communicating with the National Disability Insurance Agency
- 20 years into the future in the disability sector
Check out our episode via the link:
https://lnkd.in/gaZXrK6P
Please like & share as you see fit to spread the word & educate others
Shout out to Conscious Healthcare SA (formerly Trevor Keen Health Services) for putting this all together.
Special Mentions
ness geange - Auscare Support
Jo McIntyre - Auscare Support
Cassie Day - The Carers Place
Joe Cook
Courts - Occupational Therapist
Novita
Scott Pape - The Barefoot Investor
LAC - Mission Australia & Baptcare
Careview
Where to go to look for information: DSC
#NDIS #SupportCoordination #Healthcare #TKHS
Welcome to episode three on the journey to conscious healthcare, where we explore what it takes to consciously create longevity, happiness, and fulfillment in your life. And that of others, the journey to conscious healthcare looks at the healthcare street disability sector, and how to best navigate these areas to get the best for you and your life. I'm your host, Trevor keen. And I'm the founder and CEO of Trevor keen health services, an expert company that is known for high quality healthcare services and transforming the healthcare industry in the disability. This series is on the support coordinators in the disability space called the dos and don'ts of support coordination. Today's show is sponsored by Trevor Kane health services at Trevor Kane health services. We provide high quality N D I S healthcare services in the comfort of your own home. If you are interested in an easy and reliable way to navigate the N D I S and access healthcare services, please get in touch. Today's guest has experience internationally. Having ran businesses before, and is also the proud mother of three children. She loves supporting individuals personally or profess to create the success that they desire. And in the past 12 months has moved into a role of a support coordinator, exhibiting traits of passion, dedication, and being solution focused as well as being a strong communicator, makes her an ideal candidate for this role. Kirsty FA welcome and thanks for joining us today from S care support.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Trevor. Must be you
Speaker 1:Not a at all. Well, let's jump in. I know we had a bit of a pre-con conversation in regards to a couple personal questions, and I'd really love to know if you had a gigantic billboard anywhere with anything on it. What would it?
Speaker 2:I think the first thing that came to mind is a quote. I think that or Roosevelt said that was believe you can and you're halfway there. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I just think that in so many areas in life that kinda connects for me because most of it is the belief, whether it's in learning or business or, you know, personally or sport or whatever it is, you have to have belief in the
Speaker 1:Beginning. Yeah. Well, I think it quite a lot, we sort of go back into a bit of your journey. You've had quite a lot of start outs with businesses and you've done some pretty interesting things. I'd love to know how that's translated to where you're today. So, well,
Speaker 2:I lived in Holland with my husband 99 to 2002, and we were over there for his work. And while I was over, I did some volunteer work and then I worked for sun Microsystems. And by the time we were leaving there and coming back, I was about four weeks of having my first baby. So we moved back to Australia. Of course, I'd been not working in Australia for a few years. My husband came back with his work and I came back going, okay, what exactly am I gonna do? And I loved being a mom. Like I just loved being a mom and being around for my son. And so I had him 12 months later, I feel pregnant with my second. So there's about 20 months between the two of them. But by that time I started to get itchy feet to be like, okay, I sort of want something else. That's for me as well. And I had a letter in the letter box that was just a random mail out to previous customers of a franchise that I received. And I think it's a bit like that belief. I just went, oh, I could do this. I really think this could be something like it looked affordable to get into and it was baby related. So for me at that time, it really resonated with where I was. So I guess, yeah, to cut a long story short that started me down buying a small franchise, building that up and then selling that off to move into working for myself for 13 years. So I sort of have done project after project that was learning from one thing to another. That's where it began before I was back in sort of the healthcare sector where I was working as a sleep AP near consultant prior to support coordination. I ran a business that was about helping women in business with a lovely OT who is now working in the N DS space, funnily enough, called courts lip. So her and I ran a business helping women in business. So yeah, I don't know. I think as your life journey changes, what works for you and your family changes and I was just always to learning. So yeah. I've constantly evolved as I've gotten older.
Speaker 1:Well, it certainly sounds like you're very, you like the diversity clearly you're a very caring person and I think that fits very naturally in your support coordination role. And yeah, I think also in regards to, I think you like solving problems and I think, yeah. You know, like as in you, you're sort of scared of a challenge and I think follow on from your, yeah. Your first sort of billboard quote, I think it's really important that you believe in yourself and fundamentally if you're trying to help people, it sounds, you know, like it's a good mix for you to find a zone where you you're quite engaged and energized with what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because support coordination is all about solving problems. Sometimes it's first about working out what the problem is that needs to be solved. And then just working out what are all the pieces of the puzzle that need to get put in place to make the link, you know, make the chain so that you can actually achieve whatever the goals are that you're trying to achieve, which obviously with participants it's all about them. Oh,
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And I think whilst we're on that, I know you've got a bit of a good news story share to hear a bit about it. I think it might have been your first participant
Speaker 2:You were working with. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was the first participant that I worked with because through the beginning mentoring sort of stages, it was quite a challenging case. And so not something you would normally take on as your first participant, but I had a great mentor that I was working with and together I ended up sort of taking the lead, but I had her sort of in the background all the time supporting me. And yeah, this was a participant that was living in a unit or a, at a C park and was being evicted. And this was just before Christmas, last year. So they'd been given time before they needed to move out and they didn't have anywhere to go. They were newly on the N D I S schedule and had, you know, a plan, but it wasn't significant enough and they didn't really have any family support. Other than a friend that had been working with her and between her friend and myself, we managed to get her a house, a small unit, not very far away. Of course the participants are connected to where they live or where they're familiar with living. So they wanna try and stay in that same space. So that's what we did. And we got her in a couple weeks before Christmas, got her a new electric bed and got her some support so that her friend could move a little bit outta the carer role, have his own life. And she could build some really good connections with some supports for her. Cause trust isn't really important. And, uh, yeah, so she managed to start to build some great trust. So it was an amazing eight to 10 weeks that we had to really push and push and communicate between, you know, the caravan park and housing essay and like everything that's, you know, an uphill battle sometimes, but yeah, it all came together and it was amazing.
Speaker 1:It sounds like it was quite a nice Christmas present cause it was all before
Speaker 2:Christmas MRI. Yeah. Just before I think it was like the 18th of December or something she had to be out by. It was
Speaker 1:Crazy. Oh, so, so it's almost a year ago today. Um, we're sort of coming along that time of year and I suppose whilst we're on that topic about being sort of new to the role, so youre relatively new to the role as a support coordinator, I'd love to sort know what the key for you has been in regards to hitting the ground running
Speaker 2:In your role. Yeah. I think the fundamental thing that helped me was working with a great team when I first started. So Cassie day took me on down at the Cara's place and Joe Cook took me under her wing and the whole team down there were amazing and having good people that are experienced already within the space was a great supervisory, you know, mentorship for me to sort of get stuck right in as well as not having too much expected from a number of per, you know, like I say, I had one key participant and I sort of tagged along on a few others so that I could get some initial meetings and stuff under my belt. I was comfortable with talking to people and getting, you know, getting to know what they needed, but N S is a whole new world. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> like, you know, you can't in here without knowing anything about the N D I S so number one, learning that you never know everything anyway, mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so you've gotta come in knowing that either, you know it, and in the beginning you don't know a lot or you gonna find it out. And always being honest and upfront with that in, I think with families or nominees or the participants is fundamental. And that's what I did right from that beginning is just going, look, if I dunno it, I'll find it out. But if I do know, I'll do everything I can to yeah. Support and they are a great to get started with.
Speaker 1:I'm sort of hearing a couple that it's about being really caring and also just like a thirst for knowledge and, and trying to help. So caring, I think just means that you go above and beyond. So if there's something to find out, it sounds like you're just willing to do that. And, uh, in having that sort of role, you've got people around you that have helped you guide you if you weren't were a bit lost say,
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I think the whole knowing what, you know, but knowing that there's so much, you don't know was always something from even before coming into this role. So it was a natural thing to be aware of in coming into it and always being prepared to sort of ask or find out what you need to know. Cause I, yeah, no matter how much experience you've had in the space, in any space, there's always gonna be something that comes up that you're like, oh, haven't dealt with that before, or haven't helped in that space or haven't had cause yeah, you just can't know it all. So, oh,
Speaker 1:That's really good. And I think there's a couple things we spoke about, uh, prior as well in regards to like some mentors and I'd love to sort know mentors, you've mentioned a couple already, but like as best of advice now feel free to list as, as you want. But I'd love to sort of know what bits of advice you got and how that've helped in your journey. You're very seemingly very said, strong might be the right word, but like nice and steady with how you go about it. I think it's, it's really maybe to do with some mentors and some advice you've
Speaker 2:Got. Yeah, I've got a couple of mentors now at OS care, Vanessa G and Joe McIntyre. But on top of that being for part of a team has been awesome because they've all got a much wider range of experience combined, right? Mm. So together, when you can say, oh, look, I've got a participant with X, Y, Z, has anyone had this or come across that, just having that network to be able to do that with is crucial, but knowing that things change and things evolve as well. So making sure that you can find out the new information and, um, being on top of it with all of those guys. So those guys have really been a great mentor there, as I said, Cassie day, Joe Cook, and all of the guys down south to the Harris place were amazing. But yeah, just always learning, always looking to improve and looking to understand changes or differences, but listening to the participant mm. Um, is crucial to make sure that you're either hearing what it is they need and that that's what you're working on as well as the priority of things for them, because what you might assume they need or what you might assume is a priority, not be for them. So it's really important to make sure that yeah, number one, you're listening to the participant and then working from there, working out by speaking to others, what other fundamental things we now need to put into place for those goals to be reached or those, you know, initial problems to be solved. Like you said, problem solving, you know, maybe it's home modifications, maybe it's a wheelchair, you know, maybe it's just getting out more socially in the community. You gotta understand those things so that you're not starting at the wrong end when you're helping them. Yeah,
Speaker 1:No, I think on that note, you were sort of saying about, uh, I'm hearing a theme here in regards to this freedom choice and control and, and you've got your own prejudice that we all do when we go into something or, you know, what you thinks important might not be the same to another. Yeah. Sounds very OT related. I know there's also an OT that I think sort of helped you out a bit as well. And you've got some connections with as well that sort of might have answered that a little
Speaker 2:Bit. Yeah. Well courts that I was talking about before having been an OT prior to us meeting, and then now the fact that she's gone back into OT and, and we can kind of bounce around ideas, even though we're coming from different roles. We both need one another, even though I don't think we've even had any, you know, referrals back and forth or, or people that, uh, participants that have needed one another, but we've certainly been able to work off of our relationship to then expand on how we know we could support the other person in that situation. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think that's great. Cause it's really about the being the center of their life and understanding that control and autonomy and support to that. Yeah. And help facilitate on that note then as we sort of go in so information, there's lots of it out there. Yeah. Uh, whether it be phone calls, whatever else is in, on the internet. Yeah. All sorts of things. Where do you go to get your
Speaker 2:Information? Well, we're really fortunate at O care. We do have the DSE training that's provided to us, which allows us to try and keep on top of, of any new information or everything as it's changing because it's changing regularly and sometimes small, sometimes large. And it can be very easy to kind of miss some of these tweaks and changes. So yeah, we get the training module also being a part of an organization that is a registered provider that looks after obviously the audit process, but making sure that we are compliant in regards to all of that means that they make sure that, you know, like going through COVID and everything we've had to do and all the tweaks and changes that keep happening on requirements. They've always helped make sure that we do have things highlighted to us that are most important. So that's been, yeah, really good for me, especially as, you know, we are an organization, but we are still working independently. Like there's only a couple three of us or something in Adelaide and most are all on the east coast. So, you know, I still work from home and am not in an office with people where when stuff comes up, I can instantly talk across the desk. So of course, you know, using technology like teams and all of those things and WhatsApp and whatever, so that we've got quick access to pick the brains of everybody of your brain's trust.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think whilst you mentioned about being at home and the, the mobile nature, but how do you sort of handle that? How do you navigate the office? The phone calls we've heard from Ellie who talks about, you know, time blocking and selfcare, but how do you go about handling all these things you you're at home, so your own boss as such. Yeah. How do you work your own? I don't wanna call it, but how do you work with, and how do you make sure you things done and distractions?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's an interest single one. And the very first franchise that I bought that I ran from home, I had show or whatever at home back then I was terrible with boundaries, terrible to my own detriment. Cause they were all new moms, mostly that I was dealing with with new babies. And some of them would have big issues and they'd want help straight away. And so I would answer the all, any time of the day, any time of the week and what have you. So I, by the time I sold that, I started to learn that I need to get better with that. That's still a working progress, but when I started working support coordination, initially I was working in an office and I was kind of going to and from, but when I came to OS care, it was a all for myself from home or like on my own. And I didn't have great boundaries and I would answer the call in the supermarket because I didn't wanna be the break in the chain that slowed any process down. So I was really trying to make sure by putting my participant first, I guess, because I know that there are so many places that things can get slowed down. And so initially I was like, no, I need to make sure that I do my bit as soon as I can every time. So I keep the process smooth as it can be. But I was driving over to the York with my husband for a weekend away, I think had a couple of the kids with us. And he was talking to me about, I dunno, maybe taking on some more participants or whatever. And I was like, oh no, I think I'm kinda, I think I'm at capacity at the moment for where they're all at. And the more I talk to him, he's a general manager. So he is all about, you know, time management and making things work and, you know, efficiencies. And the more we unpacked it all, the more I realized I've gotta put boundaries back really clearly in. And so that's what I did. So by the end of the weekend, I had written out what hours I work on Monday, what hours I work on Tuesday, what hours I work on Wednesday, et cetera. So I blocked that out through the week, which meant that, and I did that with him because he was able to say, look, this is a good time of the day not to be working like Monday mornings. He said, often a lot of people are kind of catching up after the weekend, da, da, da by Monday afternoon. It's a great time to kinda get in and Fridays. A lot of people are kind of winding down by the end of the week. And what have you, so maybe you have what Friday where it's a small and the, so I do bulk of my hours, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. That works really well for me. Wednesday's my biggest day. That's when I'll do a full kinda day. Yes. I have to be flexible. Cause some weeks I don't need to see anybody in person some weeks it's just at, you know, at home, but sometimes it's mixed up mm-hmm<affirmative>. So I also, now that I've got all those hours in, it's really easy for me to combine, obviously when I am visiting and I'm much better now at saying I'm available here, here and here rather than sort of, I could sort of fit him in time before if I, mm. Um, because mostly they'll come back to me with one of the times that suits me. So yeah. I think the scheduling based on the hours you wanna do allowed me, then the time that I'm not working, that I could actually do whatever it is that I wanted to do. And that doesn't mean I don't throw on the load of washing, you know, in between work hours or whatever, but yeah, it's the scheduling of hours for working from home. It's crucial. And then the same with blocking in when I'll see participants or whoever it is that I've gotta meet up with. I still try and make sure that that's also in, when I'm working sort of thing. Cause as we know, you know, not everything's billable, but it's all work related and connected and what have you. So absolutely
Speaker 1:Really what's, it's intriguing. I'm gonna delve a little bit more into the home situation as far as, so you've said about boundaries and all that. Yeah. Have you got your own desk set aside or what's the setup? How do you know, when are you at home? Cause I mean the home's the house. Yeah, yeah. That's right. So where's home, where's work. Where do I, you know, leave that piece of paper and the bin as a walk out and how do I know I'm now with the kids? Or how do you define that? Andrew? It's a challenging one and I know many support coordinators do work independently and do work from home or what have you. And so I think this is a problem for many people. I'd love to know how you handle that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well I do have an office set up in we've sort of got a large living area and then another lounge room and that lounge room we've sectioned off so that I've got office a set up in the corner, which is great, cuz in the window, I've got the printer there and you know, couple of screens and what have you. So that's definitely sort of my working space in saying that I do have a laptop. So sometimes I sit on the lounge if the kids aren't around<laugh> and so that still allows me, I don't know a different view cause sometimes it's nice to change up a little bit, but yeah, I think it's good just by having the hours set. I know when I'm starting the day, if I have set up to have coffee with a friend or whatever, that's outside of my work hours often I'll go out to do that or whatever. So then I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah, I've gotta go home to work. So it's kind of, you know, back to front really isn't it. But yeah, that sort of seems to work pretty well to be at work or not be at work and to not get distracted. That can be challenging. I think it can be challenging for anyone that's working at home. But if you do a bit of PO maybe here and there, cuz some of the stuff we do, it's not really set on a timeframe. Like it's kind of just stuff you've gotta do or whatever. So you do have to put your like thinking cap on or your, your working cap on and head down bum up. And so, you know, the old 20, 25 minutes on five minutes off go put ke alone, whatever. And then another 25 minutes on seems to be more efficient so I can get a lot more done in a shorter period of time, um, doing that.
Speaker 1:Well, it's quite intriguing that you do say that. It sounds like you clearly have got some ways that you operate. It sounds like you're still refining those, but you're problem solve. Right. So you probably always getting a more effective and efficient time goes on. Yeah. You're also a mother. So you're a mother of three children. Yes. Um, which is really common actually in this industry. It's very common for, I dunno if it's the kind and caring nature of mothers, I dunno what its, but there's a lot of mothers that are out there. Yeah. How do you sort juggle both roles? So you've then you've also got, and obviously there's a biting with how do you,
Speaker 2:Well, thankfully my older tour towards, well one's finished high school and the other one's going into year 12. So they're relatively independent, which is good. I try to always be there for school, drop off and pick up for my 11 year old. But there are the odd occasion where I'll reorganize that maybe one of the other two can grab him or whatever. If I know that I'm, you know, on the other side of town and I am with a participant and I'm not going to be able to be back there in time. I think the beauty of obviously working for myself and working from home is the fact that I can set the time in regards to making sure that I can get him to school or I can rearrange a day outside of the norm if I need to, to therefore something else that's on for him like sports
Speaker 1:Days or
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's exactly right. Yeah. Or pre COVID when there was assemblies. Cause there's hardly anything like that at the moment you can go to. But yeah. You know, I think that's why working for myself for so long has always sort of suited me and the support coordination role kind of for me, has fitted in really well with that. So that yeah, if I need to sort of leave earlier and organize the older kids to help, I can, I, I guess that's a bit of a luxury for me. And of course last year we had a lot of lockdown and this year we've had a bit of lockdown. So helping him with schoolwork from home has been okay. It wouldn't have been as easy if I had, you know, three under 10 or three under eight or something
Speaker 1:<laugh> I totally get that. Absolutely. Well, switching off though, you've got yeah. Children doesn't matter what age they're right. Well you never switch off
Speaker 2:From the kids really? No, no you do not
Speaker 1:From suppose, but I'm really is like, you know, you've got this emotional support, you there as a mother that you, that obviously there's many other good attributes, but you know, children often expect that from you. Yes. You've got a job which requires that in spades, right? If a support coordinator, you know, often you not enough lover as such as far as, you know, you're always under pressures to get and there's pressure there. How do you yourself, how that and show up as you a good mother. Um, but also making sure that you are fine, cause you've gotta multiple roles, right? There's you in this as well. There is three roles. Yeah. Yeah. That's true coordinator. And then you, you as an individual as
Speaker 2:Well. So yeah, I mean, that's a great question. And particularly on the back of thinking of a couple of different participants that I have that have been more challenging ones and they can be ones where sometimes it feels like it doesn't matter how like you pride yourself on what you do and the way you help coordinate and manage and communicate and make sure every, all the different services or whatever communicating and the best is being done. But unfortunately, particularly if you look at in the brain injury space or whatever, when you're dealing with, they're not cognitively always able to see what you are doing and so that sometimes can come back on you and well not when I say come back on you. I don't, you know what I mean? I created a prospective budget, for example, for a participant, cause I'd worked hard on a new change of circumstances to help them with, you know, they unfortunately had cancer on top of their disability that had return. So there were lots of big things. It was a, you know, very big emotional ride, which I'd worked really hard to get on top of we were successful with a change of cert. We got some great funding managed to be able to make sure he's got everything that he needed. Um, I went right, let's work a prospective budget, worked that all out, helped him with some other parts. And then he took that as me telling him how to spend his money and he wasn't happy, you know, and this is somebody whose language is completely different to mine anyway. So the way he regularly spoke to me was not great, but that's who he was. And I just understood that along the way. But sometimes you get to where you take it and you take it, you take it and you have to kind of keep reminding yourself, you know, the position they're in. And, but like you say, there is you there as well. And you have to, and emotionally is hard to put the boundaries in sometimes. And sometimes there isn't anything you can do that is actually going to have them see actually what you've done and how, how you're just helping them the best you can to utilize the funding they've got and how they might be able to. So yeah, just, I, I think debriefing a little bit with my husband helps plenty of walking if I need to get out and just sort of go for a walk and maybe listen to a podcast or listen to an audio book or whatever, something, you know, bit uplifting, inspiring because yeah, it is a heavy role and you know, lots of people you can just have great with and, and have great successes, but sometimes the journey's a little bit more treacherous and not just from the participant perspective, like just with NDIS and with changes. And now, now we went this and delays and, and emotions of the families that are, you know, so you are kind of on that ride with them. Um, so trying to support them through that while stepping away sometimes to support yourself, sometimes there are some participants that it's best for you to go, okay, you know, I've done everything I can for you to this point. I know that I'm your fifth support coordinator and your last one, you know, you sacked after 24 hours. So I think we've done a great job so far and I am happy to sort of bless and release you onto where might be the next best stage. And then you have to kind of cut that for yourself so that you can look after
Speaker 1:Yourself too. Well. I'm hearing a lot of self-awareness there, you, you are aware of the things that you do enjoy you go out and have walks or your debrief with your husband and whoever that might be that you, you go do it with, but that sounds really important. And I'm hearing a theme of expectation management being a big, big one here. Obviously I'm in the industry as well, know all about that. Yeah. I'd love to hear from yourself though. Expectation management. How do you go about that? How do you keep expectations? Obviously you're talking just before about there's times where you're actually with them and they can actually see what's happening. So you're with the person, they can see what you're doing and there's times you're doing work in the background now just because you can't see, it doesn't mean it happens now it'll be support. Yeah. Yeah. How do you expectations? And there's like, sometimes you in with six or eight, 10 people, you've people, even one person then. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Think again, it comes down to communication. Like mostly it's just trying to make sure that you talk through whatever it is that's happening. It's why I quite like to do the prospective budgets for them. Cuz I feel like that's a little bit of a, a gap kind of thing as far as it's not the plan manager's role to, um, tell them how to spend the money. It's not the support coordinator's role to tell them how to spend the money, but it certainly is a somebody that can help support, okay, this is what the funding you've got. This is what it could look like. Or you know, the way it's been the way it could, you know, so that they at least maximize what they've got and they don't finish without using as much as they should or the opposite and use it way too soon and then find that they're really in trouble. So helping them with expectations around what, what it does. It actually look like that they've currently got working out together. Do we need further evidence to prove that this isn't actually enough for what they need? They need more than that for X, Y, Z reasons. And then finding the evidence to prove that so that you can then go back for either that review or that change of circumstance, if it's happening later on or you've taken them on further down, cause they've had somebody else and then you've come and then communicating along the way, as far as what you're doing and where things are at, whether it's over the phone or text or email, whatever is the best communication method for them so that they always know whatever the parts are that they need help with. Cause once you get supports in place and they're plotting along, that's okay. But if they're as key things that they, that they're needing, you need to keep them in the loop and you need scheduling ahead of things because unfortunately you do need to kind of keep back in the DS sometimes to make that things are still ING. And if you just rely on them to get back to you, you can wait a long time before you find, oh, you actually need something. So I think letting them know what we're doing as well as like I've got one participant here, who's nominees his brother and he's in Brisbane. And so he I've never met, uh, his brother in person. I have just always communicated via phone and email, but I'm constantly letting him know what's happening here or including him on certain emails that I'm communicating with a lot of the providers, but not too much to overwhelm him. And he said a couple of times, I don't, we'd be lost without you. Like, you know, just as long as they know what's going on. I think some providers don't manage expectations very well in reverse either. You know, they give expectations that then they just can't live up to communication is key. Most people, if they know what to expect, even if it's longer than they wanted, we'll be fine with that. As long as you're honest about it. Yeah. So it's when people will give unrealistic expectations on something and then can't deliver, you know, to the old, over promise under deliver. Like, you know, you absolutely, you can't, you can't be yeah. Saying you can do something that you don't even know that you can, um, but certainly keeping the nominee or participant or both in the loop as you are working through what it is that they're needing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, I'm sort of hearing a theme there of feeling understood. Lot of communication, which is really transparency. I know my own personal experience working with, I've got a couple family members I've probably said before that, on the NS and when I've working with our support, what's fantastic is when I get updates, what's, I've I've as well. I absolutely love my family members and I to go well, but I know where they're and we've people that load cause you can't be doing everything for everyone. Yeah. Uh, it's made a huge difference. Yeah. And Whil we're so much expectations, but bad recommendations, so recommendations or where,
Speaker 2:Well, I have taken over some participants from support coordinators that haven't done their due diligence to make sure that the right processes have been like, so if you take them on and it ends up, you believe something is in process in the process of being approved or, or waiting on a couple of key ones kind of come to mind. Sometimes it takes the N D S a while to actually explain to you that, that, that you don't have everything or whatever. So I think some support coordinators, aren't making sure they understand exactly what the N D I S needs to make sure they gather that together and get it through to them. And when that happens, you know, accentuates the delay that you can have on approval, the N D I S is amazing. And a government run organization, that's sometimes frustrating<laugh>, but it's a pretty amazing kind of platform and scheme that is changing lives, but they need us to work with them as well. And so I think, yeah, some support coordinators aren't following up enough either with the N D I S or, or not scheduling ahead to make sure they follow up and communicating regularly enough between cause often like say it modifications or I don't know. That's just a great example because it's often a few different people that you're trying to coordinate to get it done and understanding who's putting it in and that everything that's required is getting put in, you know, sometimes you have to sort of be on them. And that's sort of part of the role of the support coordinator. Yeah. Cause unfortunately not nominees have the time, you know, as much as like you're saying they love the child or the parent or the sibling that they're a nominee for, but they often are working full time or doing whatever. And if somebody needs a support coordinator, it's because they need somebody to sort of oversee a lot of those things. And if support coordinator are relying on everybody to be doing all their bit, then they're not going to yeah. Get the results that they want and the participant's gonna miss out.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like a lot of sort of following up and just making sure that things go well, cause there's, everything goes planned and the plan's good until the plan falls apart. So it's like, we've got the plan and is reality, you know? Yeah. Something happens at home or whatever else it's, or there's something that's scheduled and someone's sick. And then that that's the appointment you've been planning for a month and now you've actually gotta reset that one. So those sorts of things being versatile and sounds like a bit of a follow system as well, to make sure that it's all, like, planning's a big thing that I'm hearing
Speaker 2:From. Yeah, definitely. I think planning on your way through and, and sort of trying to just keep on top and, uh, this might come up later, but not taking on more than you should take on. Yeah. Um, because you've gotta be honest with yourself about what you can do well and make sure that you are on top of, and if you keep saying yes, yes, yes. Then you might end up where, you know, you drop the ball without meaning to, and without it being intentional and I'm by no means perfect. And you know, there's been a couple where I've chased up, you know, the N D I S and each time I've chased up, I've found that I didn't get all the information I needed. And then when I finally found it out, I've thought, oh, and I felt like I should have, I don't know, had them tell me that in the first place, but I left it another couple weeks before I rang back again. And I've delayed that because I didn't get them to tell me information earlier or that you actually needed this. So now I can chase up getting that. But, you know, so sometimes I've made the process longer, although that's the key thing I try to, I try to make sure that whatever it is, I'm coordinating, I'm keeping on top of it to make it as fast as it possibly can with all the delays of the other components that are naturally there.
Speaker 1:So being as proactive as you possibly can be, I'm quite curious actually. And I think some others might be that are maybe planning on jumping into this industry already are working. What's a particular participant journey look like. And so as a support coordinator, like, let's just say, we've got Jane and if we've got Jane, like how much do you see Jane at the start middle end? I not depends upon disabilities and all that, but let's roll with it. Let's say we've got Jane, what's it look like, you know, through out, let's throw it out. Maybe 20 hours on a plan. We're a bit more lucky summer 12, right. We know
Speaker 2:That's 12, you're doing 12<laugh>. So
Speaker 1:What it look like, you know, as far as going out and seeing them, or I'd love to go through an end to end if that's OK. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's fine. Obviously it depends partly on whether you've taken them on part through or if it's their first plan or not. But if Jane, for example, is, um, first plan. So I ha this is an example of one that I have had earlier this year where I actually help with them, help them just before to actually do the planning, meeting the original meeting, to get an NGOs plan approved for access. Yeah. Yeah. Access. So fortunate for us, this was a very good friend of our like CEO who said, no, I want you to help them. And, you know, I'll make sure that you get sort of reimbursed a bit to be able to help out, but I need them to get support. So I was like, yeah, that's fine. So I went out initially for a meeting before we were gonna have the planning meeting and I just made through sure. We went through all of the questions and he had, you know, all the answers and what have you. Then we had the planning meeting, then we got the plan through. So then I went out to sort of go through and do an implementation of, okay, this is sort of what we were hoping for and wanted. This is sort of what we got, like we said about priorities, what are the things that we're most important to them? And then I went away and created a proposed budget schedule for the 12 months or the two years in this case, it was 12 months that we had so that we went all right. Well, we haven't necessarily got all the things that we would like to have, but this is the first plan. And we need to probably have a bit more evidence in some spaces. So we kept that in mind for how we can utilize some of the funding. Yeah. And then I just started researching appropriate supports. Um, for him, he was interested in looking for work. So we, I actually found a support worker that was excellent and very proactive as well in looking up, uh, other places where they could do some, um, work experience and some things like that. So they went through sort of doing that, you know, the budget changes obviously as you go through the year, but you can kind of keep tweaking that as to where you're up to. And then we have organized an OT, functional capacity assessment for this participant, because we didn't have that before. So
Speaker 1:At the start we're doing that early doors, or, cause I know that some's support coordinators get done right at the start some before plan review. Cause it's the first plan we're doing it at the start or what's where we
Speaker 2:Going with it. Well, again, I think every case probably varies if he had way too little funding for what he really needed, we probably would've prioritized getting that done really early. Mm. It wasn't a huge plan, but it was enough for somebody that was early fifties and had never had, you know, a plan or any other sort of supports really. So I wanted to start by utilizing some, some of the funding that we had and just make sure that so March is when the plan began. So it's next March that we'll have review. And I wanted to just make sure that we had that assessment and evidence for the new plan and because we had sort of proposed the money and the funding and what we were gonna, you know, it's worked quite well to get a, through this year to implement some good activities for him. He's starting to get a bit more involved in the community, talking with the Des provider, hopefully looking at other options for work. So that for the next plan, we've got a different set of goals and a different way to approach the needs more evidence because we couldn't do the OT assessment before. Cause they didn't have the funding for it. Right. At the beginning, we didn't necessarily need it straight away. Like I said, unless it was really low funding, but we definitely need it for him by the end so that we've got it for review time. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I'm sort of hearing at the start
Speaker 2:Where a bit, definitely more heavy.
Speaker 1:So if we sort of say start middle and end, what's it look like as far as the work, without going into astronomical detail, I know that there's a lot involved,
Speaker 2:Right? Yeah. And as you said, it depends on hours and stuff like that. Of course participants have different levels of needs, but it's always heavier at the start, you know, the six to 10 ish hours in the beginning and you your same sort of thing at the end, because this one has been a first plan. It has been a little heavier throughout than what they necessarily always are because you've either gotta prepare for your review at the end, the more work you can put in, in that last six to 10 weeks before the planning meeting, the better you can make the job for the planner and the easier you make the job for the planner, the better the result in my experience, you're more likely to get<laugh> if you rely on kind of throwing them a few bits last minute and then having to get too much after the more you can have prepared, it's almost like the more of the planning meeting you can do for them. The more that you can come in and they're like, oh, well, oh my, my God, this amazing, like you, you, so the more prepared you're yeah. The more, I dunno, it just seems to feel like the more they go into bat for you. Yeah. Um, cause often they're speaking to a delegate often if it's an LA they're often speaking to a delegate to, um, have to sort of fight for a certain areas and because each participant's D and even with the same diagnosis, they need completely different things. So yeah. You need to be able to evidence why one needs one thing over somebody else. And if you've got the right information beforehand, mostly I've found it's been pretty successful to be able to get what you need for them, with the planning meeting.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I, I'm hearing a theme with, I dunno, we've gone through how much involved, heavy at the front, heavy at the back end and all that. There's a real theme throughout I'm partnership. It's not necessarily a guide because, you know, expert in, but you having that sort partnership and with that partnership, it means that, you know, it just makes the journey a bit easier. Yeah. Whereas if they're going in, I I've heard of situations before a participant will have a plan in place with the support coordinator and then they'll get a phone call or something will happen and then they'll start another service and you've done your budget and whatever else it is throwing things out, left field plan managers now getting involved, different sorts of stuff about things not working. So yeah. Sounds like that real partnership is something that's key that you really utilize to make sure that things go in the right direction.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I think the working together and, you know, trying to always listen, I think it's listen, listen, listen, you always have to be listening to what they need and want, but also kind of being proactive, even working out who is it, they need to see to determine maybe, you know, what they want or what they need, because you don't know what you dunno. So sometimes you could benefit from certain services. Speech is a great example. You know, I've got a participant who has an intellectual disability and they've they've had speech, but to me, they talk quite well. And so I sort of thought speech is helping people talk. Right. But when I came up for doing a change of search for them, cause they're, you know, actually gonna be out of funding and we needed to make sure they still had supports. I organized a report from the speech therapist so that we had hopefully sufficient speech in the new plan. And when I read through the report, I was like, oh wow. You know, it's a lot more about communication and how they can, you know, all the different ways that you can help them to be able to have more confidence and be more able to participate in community and all of that. So the more you understand through the therapists, how they can help your participants, the more you can make sure not they're advocating, cause we're not allowed to advocate. But the, the more that we try to make sure we are ensuring that they are even aware of what's available to them. Yeah. And what could benefit them because they may not know, but there's lots of great allied health professionals out there that can let you know how they could help that then you know, to then ask for it and hopefully get it or just help guide them then on how they'll spend their funding for what will benefit them most.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. It's a, it's a funny theme in regards to the different therapies and what they do and the understanding, cause yeah, something that's come up quite a lot in regards to, you know, what does an occupational therapist do? Physio? Yes. Or how to, you know, what's the need of a social worker and I'm often talking to support coordinators about, oh, did you know that social workers can actually do a fair bit of the stuff that's done by an occupational therapist? Yeah. Did you know, in pediatrics, as an example, you can have physiotherapy and occupational therapy and speech often work very closely together in area. Yes. And in that sphere it's like, oh, well physio and OT overlap a lot. Yes. In pediatrics. But then when you sort with you, or of an education series about world yeah. Would be very beneficial. Yeah. Just about make sure that everyone's on the same page and it's not just about having it there for support coordinators and participants to understand. Cause often I think the theme is that, you know, physiotherapy or occupational therapy might be discussed, but some of these other therapies aren't discussed developmental educators.
Speaker 2:We had a good I a
Speaker 1:Ago about D exactly. So know very different as far as that. And I, on that note, I'm very interested. We're talking about some gaps in areas for improvement. I think where we're going earlier, before we started was maybe about access, but I'd love in regards to N how can we help if there are gaps, can that, where do you see the problems?
Speaker 2:I guess? Yeah. I think there's a few different, there's probably lots of gaps.<laugh> definitely helping to get onto the N DS. It's very challenging. I have one participant that I look after. It's just a little boy. He's just turned four, actually. But he lives with his and his grandmother and his uncle. So his mom's brother, the little boy, the uncle and the grandmother are all on the N D I S the mom isn't, but the mom could really benefit from being on there too. I think she's applied three times and has been knocked back every time. And it's really heartbreaking because the other area that I see they could really do with help is almost a case manager or a family. And I've researched and spoken to so many different organizations to try and find who is the person that can come in and help her. Who's clearly struggling to get the supports she needs, you know, a three year old doesn't get support workers. They don't get funding. They don't tend to get a lot of funding in core unless, you know, unless they're in a wheelchair and they need to have carers, mostly so many things come under parental responsibility. So yeah, very topical, very topical<laugh>. And so if that's the case, what if mom really needs help? So I think whether it's the N D I S needs to be able to have a service where people can walk through those. Cause typically if people need it, they need it for a reason. And sometimes it means that they aren't able to understand everything they need to do. So I think certainly help to get onto the N D I S yeah. I think case management, uh, I don't even know from a government perspective where that all comes in, but yeah,
Speaker 1:I, I remember we were talking, uh, earlier, before the podcast, we're talking about, you was talking about case manager who sits between it. All right. So you've got a support coordinator. Who's, you know, they're not telling people what to do, right? No, you've got a plan manager paying the bills, say, then you've got, you know, maybe some core supports providers, support workers. You've
Speaker 2:Got some allied health professionals maybe from different C and that as well, who keeps all that together and yeah. And navigate that, I suppose many would argue, Hey, a support coordinator sort meant to keep the ship or going, but it's all only as good as the transparency as well. Yeah. Is that sort of where you're going early on? Yeah, that's right. No, I, I think so because, well, particularly when you've got a plan that has 12 hours or 20 hours of support, and, you know, like I said, you need certain amount at the beginning, a certain amount at the end, and that doesn't necessarily, so there is not a lot of time to be really working, supporting, and coordinating. Like this little boy has a team from Novita that is their speech, occupational therapist and physio. So they I'm grateful that he has at least a team from an organization that do work all together on, you know, on the case. And so that helps me to be able to help from that perspective. But like I said, mom's struggling, but I'm employed with hours to help the child. I, I help the mom as much as I can help them, but yeah, there still needs to be somebody else within that sort of framework and everything is so separate as far as kind of the support coordination, the plan management, you know, the plan management team, it is choice and control. But so as far as what people are going to spend the funding sort of on, they need to make sure they're, they're doing the right thing, but it's not always them making the decision or it shouldn't always be the support coordinator. I feel like sometimes there's a gap. I mean, you know, lots of support coordinators don't necessarily do this budgeting. Um, but a lot of participants can't work that out for themselves. They can't
Speaker 1:Financial literacy. I mean, it's not that hard. I mean, I know there's been a huge barefoot investor movement and all that stuff. Like so financial, it's hard for
Speaker 2:People across the board.
Speaker 1:Right. It's challenging. So thats right. That together. I mean, you'd like to think you'd be able to call your LA and, and you'd have someone from, I dunno, mission Australia or care, whatever it might be pick up, but you know, you're not, they're
Speaker 2:All overworked are all overwork. They don't have time. I mean, the funny literacy side I think is, is huge understanding how that works and what it looks like and, and being able to juggle it and navigate it. Yeah. They might get their monthly statements, but I don't know how much they look at them. I had another participant that I took on who had a rollover plan, like an extension of 12 months. That was July 20, no, 19, I think it rolled over no 20 middle of COVID. Yeah. And then rolled over again middle of this year. And when it just sort of goes to an extension, it's like, whatever they had, it gets added onto as if it was a two year plan, but it becomes that amount again. And then it's happened a third time, but they've almost spent very little of sort of their funding, but they only, they didn't realize they, they didn't, they don't know the numbers, you know, the parents are elderly. Yeah. Right. And nobody's really explained it to them. So I've helped them try to go, okay. You know, they've had something happen to dad where he now can't drive for Isight he's now had his license taken away. They've relied on him. So I'm like, that's OK. Like we can do this. And like, oh, well that's gonna cost. I'm like, yes, but you've got this funding here and that's, that's what it's there for to help support you with this. And, you know, they, and they struggle trying to communicate with the N D I S sending emails and all of that just makes everything take a lot longer. So as frustrating as it can be. And a lot of people don't like getting on the phone anyway, but getting on the phone will often get you a quicker result, um, and certainly answers quicker. Even if you do it again in two weeks. And there's a two week delay because they, I didn't tell you what they should have last time getting on the phone again, then, you know, sometimes sending the documents while you're on the phone with them and having them upload documents, cuz that can all take ages. If you rely on it being emailed in and you know, picked up consents and all of those things, the number of times I've had them go, oh, do we have consents? I can go back and tell them the date. And the time I sent the, which may have been three months before or whatever, but it didn't end up getting uploaded or what have you.
Speaker 1:Yes. Ever. So cross
Speaker 2:<inaudible> isn't it. Yeah. So I really feel for the participants or the families or the participants that are trying to navigate something that is quite complex and make sure that they're getting what they need and then maximizing what they get.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And I've got another one I know we've covered this a little bit. You know, I've got a question here that goes around the stresses and constant obstacles. We're spoken about self care. And I suppose what I'm really interested in is when things are going left. Right. You know, like as in phone call, email. Yeah. Whatever else might be, you've late to your next home visit, whatever else. Yeah. Do you handle that? Like as in with all these things coming left, right. We've, we've talked about, you know, self we've about that, but I'm like, well, is it just having systems, you plan a lot, you bit unique like that or,
Speaker 2:Oh no, I'm probably not. And I, I probably don't enough. I mean, I probably do rely a lot still on keeping my caseload manageable and well diary though. Is that like yeah. Yeah. Electronic diary. So obviously I, I put in from that perspective. Yeah. And I have to rely on that to be able to, cause I can't
Speaker 1:Remember. I was gonna say, if you rely on, geez, I know you, you might be super mum, but wow. Memory of all these different phone calls and everything that's tough, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. No, I mean, I'm obviously as far as scheduling all of that sort of thing. Yeah. And even follow ups or whatever, if I need to have all of that, I make sure I try and put that in. But yeah. Sometimes it does get a bit all over the place and because you're working with multiple different people, I tend to try and minimize how many I'm working with on a given day. And luckily that's sort of the way it works. Anyway. Some people don't need you at all for a while. And so you're, you know, you might be just calling with them to check in, but I, I try to do my notes as much as I can while either soon after straight after sort of the meeting or soon after, so sometimes during typing,
Speaker 1:Are you SCR or are you doing
Speaker 2:Mostly typing notes? Oh, I've done audio. Definitely. Yeah, because that's easy to then sort of play back sometimes I'm just writing. Yeah. Um, because sometimes it's more general, so I'm just sort of writing, you know, notes and sometimes I'll sit there at the end of the day and do just kind of get in the zone and do it and go through kind of my list and yep. That, yeah. Yeah. And I mean email and text messaging, the more you can keep that is digital, the more you've got to be able to refer back to. So I do like to check back through the emails and go, oh yep. I hadn't done that one. Yeah. So, because I do find, it's not always easy to take, like in say we use care view immediately as you're doing it and you don't wanna leave it, you know, too long later. But like you say, between phone call and email and you get interrupted and, but they all kind of need to be noted and, and written down. So sometimes its just a bit over the<laugh> back of the hand every now. Yeah. Yeah. That works. That's don't
Speaker 1:Forget. It's challenging. It's yourself organized. Yeah. Bit more. Yes, I've right. Is let's we've achieved success in the disability sector. Yeah. What does it look like? What does it feel like? Paint me a picture.
Speaker 2:Oh, well I remember when I first started reading a big article about, you know, an ordinary life like living this ordinary life, which is a key thing for which always sounds ridiculous. Right. Because, because you're talking about these people with a disability that are living an ordinary life, they're like, it's like, why wouldn't you want them to live an amazing life<laugh> but, and maybe that will be what it is for them. But I think that in 20 years time we're successful, we have great integration within, you know, society and out so that they are free to go out as much as they choose that they want to go out, have full accessibility to be able to do that without having to feel like it's challenging or that they're, you know, making things more difficult or whatever and have the supports and what have you that they need in, in place so that they're not lonely. And they have certainly the self care help that they need. Mm. Um, and sometimes that's even, you know, with aging parents that feel like they want to help them forever, but know that they're gonna be at a point where they can't. So yeah, I think it'd be great to think that we have that full accessibility and an ordinary life for everyone mm-hmm<affirmative> so that everybody's able to have access to do what it is that they need and want socialize and catch up with people or meet new people or learn new, you know, access to different courses and things that they might wanna do just to add. Cause for all of us, as we get older, even if we're not somebody that has a disability, we want to be able to enjoy our day to day. You know, we wanna feel like we have a bit of a purpose or we have something to contribute or something that makes us happy. So yeah. Even if you could retire tomorrow, who'd wanna sit home and do nothing. Yeah. And so these guys are the same, you know, they, they also have golden dreams. Um, and I want them to be able to believe and know that that's halfway to now achieving cause physically nothing is removed from them from whatever it is they wanna do.
Speaker 1:Right. That's really inspiring. I'm hearing out of a, all that hopes. Yeah. Aspirations. Yeah. Really connection. I think beyond all. Yeah. You know like connected everywhere. We don't have to, we've got maybe got all these days, these campaigns and all that, that go on to raise awareness. Yeah. But we're just so integrated that disabilities everyone's problem and maybe not problem, but you know, it's it's discussion point and all that. It sounds wow. That's really me moved there. That's
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's in the care system as well. I think that, you know, both of those spaces need to go back to a more community of living and because loneliness is a problem in the, and so connection I think is key.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree anymore. We've been talking to Kirsty Bonner, a proud and passionate support coordinator from Oz care support Kirsty. Where can people go to learn more about what you
Speaker 2:Do? Uh, they can go to, I think it's just Oz care, support.com.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Not all it. Well, thank you so much for your time. Pleasure.